Curse

Daesu · Dec 11, 2009, 04:46 AM // 04:46

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Originally Posted by Nerel

It's a fact? The thing about facts is that they are verifiable... that is how they differ from opinions, insane rants and conspiracy theories.

By all means, show me the proof that ArenaNet's decision making process with regards to skill/game balancing is being made by a small minority of Uber leet pve farmers, determined to stomp out the ability of the rest of us to farm effectively, while giving them some sort of monopoly on shiny pixels.

Show me the proof that ArenaNet's decision making process with regards to skill/game balancing is not being made by a small minority of Uber leet pve farmers.

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Where is this cabal of leet PvE decision makers? Do they have a secret hand shake? You do realize how insane this sounds?

And what makes you so sure that they have a secret hand shake?

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It's nice to see that you'd welcome the return of the XTH with non tradable Z-keys that can only be used on the account that 'won' them. I wouldn't mind that either.

I think zkeys should be tradable, the more the merrier.

Trub · Dec 11, 2009, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Show me the proof that ArenaNet's decision making process with regards to skill/game balancing is not being made by a small minority of Uber leet pve farmers.

And what makes you so sure that they have a secret hand shake?

I think zkeys should be tradable, the more the merrier.

1.) I don't farm, I buy it at the store..;p
2.) We rub noses when we meet, no hand-touchy-feelies, and no shaking...alot of jumping...but no shaking.
3.) And zaishen coins!

Daesu · Dec 11, 2009, 05:07 AM // 05:07

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Originally Posted by Trub

3.) And zaishen coins!

Nah zcoins would just cheapen the efforts people make to do zmissions/zquests. Zkeys on the other hand, is a PvE reward disguised as PvP reward. True hardcore PvPers only use PvP characters and have no need for zkeys.

Zkeys is a way for ANet to say "Thank you, Mr PvEer, for your interest in our PvP system. As a reward, here are your zkeys, now go trade the hell out of them!"

Karate Jesus · Dec 11, 2009, 05:32 PM // 17:32

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Originally Posted by BoxOfCox

ITT: PvE'rs are mad because they feel entitled to free money every month.

Tbh, I'm not a PvE'er and I have never sold my zkeys. I just want there to be interest in the mATs again. Lately, they've been soooo bad, but that's due to a lot of things (no one cares anymore, shitter guilds play top 100, terribly stagnant meta, etc.).

mrvrod · Dec 11, 2009, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxOfCox

ITT: PvE'rs are mad because they feel entitled to free money every month.

This has come up too many times, and I've given detailed responses each time. Not this time, search for my other responses if you want a breakdown.

I've spent over $2000.00 on this game for my family and myself with campaigns and upgrades, NOTHIING in this game is free!

P.S. I'm not saying there isn't value for your money, but this "free" bs just isn't true.

P.P.S. That $2000, acroos 4 accounts, for 4 years, averages to a monthly amount of $10.42. Right in the range of monthly pay MMOs.

Martin Alvito · Dec 11, 2009, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Show me the proof that ArenaNet's decision making process with regards to skill/game balancing is not being made by a small minority of Uber leet pve farmers.

Since the simplest hypothesis is the null (that balance is not dictated by a cabal of elites), the burden of proof is on you.

Put a theory supported by evidence on the table, and people might start to believe you. Until then, your story is just tinfoil hat society paranoid bunk.

I'll give you this: if you watch High End, it's pretty clear that some "elite" players attempt to manipulate markets through disinformation. How successful they are is another matter. But balance decisions? No way.

mrvrod · Dec 11, 2009, 11:44 PM // 23:44

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Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

But balance decisions? No way.

Oh really? Ok how about this proof. On anets own video they talk about how something has to be done about SF because UW was never meant to be cleared in under 8 minutes. Then they make changes to the UW eliminating the 8 minute SF speed clear. The small, elite crowd here on Guru keep shouting for further nerfs of SF because the ecto fix isn't enough, and now it looks like you'll get your way. Johnny Cochran I'm not, but that's enough evidence for me.

Martin Alvito · Dec 11, 2009, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Broken skills are broken.

This is why good players could with luck run UW in less than ten minutes, or consistently do it in fifteen.

You'd be making the same argument about PvP...skill updates are dictated by what goes on in "elite" PvP. But it's not like there's an organized cabal of PvP-ers that make the balance updates. The best players just use what's efficient, and get upset when something becomes so efficient that it crowds out strategy and skill.

mrvrod · Dec 11, 2009, 11:52 PM // 23:52

SF in PvP is a far cry of what it is in PvE. And in PvE there is little to no strategy and skill, it's all about the skills.

Nerel · Dec 12, 2009, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Show me the proof that ArenaNet's decision making process with regards to skill/game balancing is not being made by a small minority of Uber leet pve farmers.

I don't mean to suggest that you're not intelligent, but you made the claim, the burden of proof is clearly yours. Oh, you want me to prove something that doesn't exist, you want me to prove a negative? Okay, I do mean to suggest that you are not intelligent.

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Originally Posted by Daesu

And what makes you so sure that they have a secret hand shake?

It's a secretive cabal, a shadow government of sorts... of course they have a secret handshake in some form or another. That goes without saying.

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Originally Posted by Daesu

I think zkeys should be tradable, the more the merrier.

Of course you do, I don't think anyone ever believed otherwise despite your protests of never trading them... it's all about the free money for lazy players... nothing ever changes.

Daesu · Dec 12, 2009, 03:00 AM // 03:00

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Originally Posted by Nerel

Of course you do, I don't think anyone ever believed otherwise despite your protests of never trading them... it's all about the free money for lazy players... nothing ever changes.

That sounds good enough to me. Afterall, it is not real money, only virtual money.

Nerel · Dec 12, 2009, 03:30 AM // 03:30

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Originally Posted by Daesu

That sounds good enough to me. Afterall, it is not real money, only virtual money.

Afterall, you did spend a lot of real money on all those extra accounts for the XTH...

Daesu · Dec 12, 2009, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

Afterall, you did spend a lot of real money on all those extra accounts for the XTH...

So even more so for those people who have spent real money buying the extra accounts. They are entitled to get the extra zkeys. Sounds fair to me, spending extra money on ANet's product entitles you to more power in the game. Otherwise why the hell would I spend extra money and get nothing in return?

Nerel · Dec 12, 2009, 05:33 AM // 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

So even more so for those people who have spent real money buying the extra accounts. They are entitled to get the extra zkeys. Sounds fair to me, spending extra money on ANet's product entitles you to more power in the game. Otherwise why the hell would I spend extra money and get nothing in return?

Oh, absolutely... more power I say... I also want a free rank on every PvP title per additional account purchased, I mean I spent money so I deserve it right?

The sad thing, you don't even know that you're trolling.

You spent extra money on game accounts, and oh look, you got extra game accounts. If the XTH doesn't return you STILL have those extra game accounts, if the XTH zaishen keys are non tradable you still have those game accounts, and a crap load of Z keys that you can use on the zaishen chest.

What you really want is MONEY, and you think you deserve MONEY because you paid for it.

Problem is, ArenaNet didn't sell you MONEY, they sold you accounts... go blame yourself. Oh, and while you're at it, buy your MONEY from a RMT gold trader, but please be careful and take every precaution against not getting caught by ArenaNet. That's right, make sure they catch you doing it.

RMT scum are just another form of cheater that ruins the game for everyone else.

Daesu · Dec 12, 2009, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

You spent extra money on game accounts, and oh look, you got extra game accounts. If the XTH doesn't return you STILL have those extra game accounts, if the XTH zaishen keys are non tradable you still have those game accounts, and a crap load of Z keys that you can use on the zaishen chest.

I dont have a crap load of zkeys. I just dont think it is fair that people spent real money to buy the extra accounts just for the zkeys and got swindled by ANet in return. That is false advertising.

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What you really want is MONEY, and you think you deserve MONEY because you paid for it.

Of course I am entitled to the items that I paid for. Do you think real world money is that easy to come by then?

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Problem is, ArenaNet didn't sell you MONEY, they sold you accounts... go blame yourself. Oh, and while you're at it, buy your MONEY from a RMT gold trader, but please be careful and take every precaution against not getting caught by ArenaNet. That's right, make sure they catch you doing it.

The problem is ANet advertised that each account is entitled to take part in the competition. Not fulfilling their end of the bargain is swindling after people have already paid for their new accounts.

Stop trying to switch the topic. I bought my game accounts from ComputerStop, since when did they sell gold?

UnChosen · Dec 12, 2009, 09:57 AM // 09:57

The XTH was never meant to be some sort of money making machine to begin with. It was created to encourage people to "participate" in PvP.

I personally think that the whole "more account = more money" thing made the whole PvE reward system even worse. Why? Because its unequal, both in the reward/risk ratio AND the amount rewarded to each player.

With all the fuss I made in the SF thread about pugs not getting enough for their work....this is the exact opposite. People are getting too much for literally zero effort. People with multiple accounts and "lucky" people end up with far more "free" money than everyone else and bid up the price of items against people who don't have the multi account/luck.

Make no mistake, I think the reward system is completely unbalanced, but I don't think "free" money is the way to solve it either.

Nerel · Dec 13, 2009, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I dont have a crap load of zkeys. I just dont think it is fair that people spent real money to buy the extra accounts just for the zkeys and got swindled by ANet in return. That is false advertising.

Of course I am entitled to the items that I paid for. Do you think real world money is that easy to come by then?

The problem is ANet advertised that each account is entitled to take part in the competition. Not fulfilling their end of the bargain is swindling after people have already paid for their new accounts.

Stop trying to switch the topic. I bought my game accounts from ComputerStop, since when did they sell gold?

Anet gave you the extra accounts didn't they? You got what you paid for... accusing ArenaNet of false advertising is simply libelous trash talk from somebody who isn't intelligent enough to realize that they got what they paid for, nothing more, nothing less.

You're entitled to what you paid for? You paid for the accounts, you got the accounts... being stupid is no reason to feel entitled to more.

ArenaNet didn't swindle you out of anything, they broke no law and engaged in no misleading practice... clearly you're too stupid to see this, so go take some of your real world money and hire a lawyer, he can tell you that you're an idiot.

How am I switching topic? YOU stated that you PAID REAL WORLD MONEY and EXPECTED THE VIRTUAL WEALTH that you had PAID FOR. I know you're not very bright, and I honestly feel sorry for you, but I also think that you're scum.

Have a nice day.

MODs: If I haven't crossed the line and earned a ban for this post, I surely will if that idiot responds... stand by with the ban button.

Martin Alvito · Dec 13, 2009, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

Anet gave you the extra accounts didn't they? You got what you paid for... accusing ArenaNet of false advertising is simply libelous trash talk from somebody who isn't intelligent enough to realize that they got what they paid for, nothing more, nothing less.

The XTH advocates have a point. Not legal standing, but a point.

One of the features of the extra accounts they purchased was the right to play XTH. Sure, the EULA says that anything can be changed at any time. But let's face it, that feature was what got those players to make the purchase.

I agree wholeheartedly that this was legalized RMT. It needed to go away. But the way that ANet went about it was pretty reprehensible. Promising upgrades of a feature that sold accounts, and then discontinuing the feature entirely when the upgrades don't work as planned, is no way to do business. Effectively, ANet waited until they had the money in their pockets and then appeased those of us in the community that were strongly opposed to XTH. It looks like they're trying to have their cake and eat it too on this issue.

Nerel · Dec 13, 2009, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

The XTH advocates have a point. Not legal standing, but a point.

One of the features of the extra accounts they purchased was the right to play XTH. Sure, the EULA says that anything can be changed at any time. But let's face it, that feature was what got those players to make the purchase.

I agree wholeheartedly that this was legalized RMT. It needed to go away. But the way that ANet went about it was pretty reprehensible. Promising upgrades of a feature that sold accounts, and then discontinuing the feature entirely when the upgrades don't work as planned, is no way to do business. Effectively, ANet waited until they had the money in their pockets and then appeased those of us in the community that were strongly opposed to XTH. It looks like they're trying to have their cake and eat it too on this issue.

I do understand your point, but an obvious flaw is the assumption that purchasing an account entailed any certain 'rights' beyond owning that account. A player who purchased the game after seeing a group of his friends tearing through DoA using Ursan Blessing and being told how easy it was would be more than a little miffed if his purchase occurred the day before Ursan Blessing was nerfed... the skill was an advertised feature of Guild Wars: Eye of the North. The powerful PvE skills of EotN are often claimed to be the selling point of that expansion... but does that translate to a right?

Buying the game with the assumption that nothing in the game that you like or want will ever change is foolhardy, skills or professions you like can be altered, content you want might be removed (Bye bye TA and HB)... that is the nature of the game.

ArenaNet NEVER specifically sold Zaishen Keys for cash, they never assured you of access to the XTH, they never sold these features.

The XTH was a side feature of the game, that wasn't even IN THE GAME, it was something on their website that coincided with in game events (Monthly Automated Tournaments). Arguably it is no more integral to the game than the Halloween or Wintersday art competitions (both of which function primarily on the Guild Wars website, and yet give in game rewards).

As for ArenaNet deliberately pulling the plug on the XTH as a response to criticisms of it's RMT aspects... we have no proof of that, all their communications on the matter have been regarding technical difficulties. From the very day it was launched the XTH DID have problems, never did a month go by where people weren't complaining that they missed out on their rewards... clearly IT DID HAVE some technical issues. Without some reasonable supporting evidence I think it's quite rude to claim that they pulled the XTH after cashing in, unless it is merely being mentioned in a speculative manner to further discussion on the possible issues behind the XTH's continued absence. Still, quite rude.

Fril Estelin · Dec 13, 2009, 03:51 PM // 15:51

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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Apparently even Linsey would like to hear an update :/. Either that or she just wants to be on our side.

Or ... it's not Linsey?